In this post present a very good interview of Scott Aaronson with Yuval Boger of QuEra, in which Scott gives a detailed and thoughtful account of his view of my position. Scott nicely characterizes the position I put forward early … Continue reading →
In this post present a very good interview of Scott Aaronson with Yuval Boger of QuEra, in which Scott gives a detailed and thoughtful account of his view of my position. Scott nicely characterizes the position I put forward early on as follows:
“There has to be some principle of correlated noise that comes on top of quantum mechanics and somehow screens off quantum computation”
Indeed, my previous post described, with the benefit of time perspective, conjectures I made about correlated noise twenty years ago. If correct, they would pose major obstacles to quantum computers. The fact that these conjectures remain undecided after twenty years may give us some indication of the time scale required both for progress in building quantum computers and for understanding whether quantum computation is possible at all.
Today, in the first part of the post I quote Scott’s view of my position, and in the second part I offer my responses.
Let me mention two points I made that are relevant in broader scientific contexts.
- In my view, carefully checking experimental claims—especially major ones—is an important part of scientific work.
- As a general rule, raw data for such experiments should be publicly available.
While I do not always agree with Scott on the technical level, I find Scott’s answer perfectly reasonable. Over the decades—and especially in the past seven years—some of Scott’s references to my position were hostile, mocking or offensive, so I am glad that he chose a different path in this interview.
A fictitious scene generated by AI of Yuval, Scott, and me having a friendly discussion about quantum computing. In reality, I have not yet met Yuval, and I have not met Scott for many years. (Scott and Yuval approved the use of the picture.)
Scott Aaronson’s View of my View
Yuval: I’ve heard you refer many times in your talks to an argument with Gil Kalai about whether large-scale quantum computing is even possible. Do you think he still has a path to being vindicated, or is it over?
Scott: I feel like his path has been getting narrower and narrower. Gil Kalai is a brilliant mathematician and one of the leading skeptics of quantum computing. What he was postulating was that he believes quantum mechanics—quantum mechanics is fine—but there has to be some principle of correlated noise that comes on top of quantum mechanics and somehow screens off quantum computation.
I’ve never entirely understood why he’s so certain of that. Maybe it’s more accurate to say he starts with quantum computation being impossible as his axiom, then works backwards to find what kinds of correlated noise would kill the schemes for quantum error correction and therefore vindicate his axiom.
He’s come up with various models. I never found them physically plausible, but at least he was sticking his neck out, which is more than a lot of quantum computing skeptics were doing. He was proposing models and making predictions. His prediction was that at the scale of 50 to 100 qubits and hundreds or thousands of gates, you’d see correlations in the errors. If you apply a thousand gates, each 99.9% accurate, the total accuracy wouldn’t just be 0.999 to the thousandth power—it would be much worse because all the different errors would interact with each other.
Now those experiments have been done—famously by Google, Quantinuum, USTC, and I believe QuEra has done relevant demos too. And again and again, this is not what we’ve seen. The total accuracy does go down exponentially with the number of gates, but it merely goes down exponentially—exactly the way the theory of quantum fault tolerance presupposed 30 years ago. If this is all that’s going on—simple uncorrelated noise—then quantum error correction is going to work. It’s merely a staggeringly hard engineering problem to build this at the scale where it works.
Over the last five years, Gil Kalai has been driven in a really weird direction where he’s basically saying these experiments have to be wrong. He keeps writing to the Google people requesting more of their raw data—he CCs me on the emails—then does his own analyses, posts about it on the archive. He keeps saying their 2019 experiment must have been fallacious. But in the meantime, there’s been a dozen other experiments by other companies all getting the same conclusion. He’s fighting a losing battle at this point.
The fact that someone of his capability tried so hard to prove quantum computing impossible and failed makes me more confident. If there is a fundamental roadblock, it has to be something totally new and shocking, something we haven’t foreseen and Gil hasn’t foreseen either—some change to the laws of physics that somehow wouldn’t have reared its head with thousands of gates but will do so at millions of gates.
The scientist in me hopes we’ll make that discovery. I hope quantum computing will be impossible for some reason that revolutionizes physics—how exciting would that be? But that’s not my prediction. My prediction is that the more boring, conservative thing will happen: quantum computing will merely be possible, just like the theory said.
Some responses
Motivation
Maybe it’s more accurate to say he starts with quantum computation being impossible as his axiom, then works backwards to find what kinds of correlated noise would kill the schemes for quantum error correction and therefore vindicate his axiom.
Yes, this characterization of my work on correlated errors is essentially accurate, and it is often how I describe it myself. (See section “Motivation” of my previous post.)
My later works on quantum supremacy for NISQ computers analyzed the computational complexity and noise sensitivity of NISQ devices based on standard noise models. Both directions lead to predictions at the scale of hundreds or thousands of gates.
Correlated errors
His prediction was that at the scale of 50 to 100 qubits and hundreds or thousands of gates, you’d see correlations in the errors.
Yes. For the precise predictions look at the previous post.
If you apply a thousand gates, each 99.9% accurate, the total accuracy wouldn’t just be 0.999 to the thousandth power—it would be much worse because all the different errors would interact with each other.
No, this was not part of my predictions.
And again and again, this is not what we’ve seen. The total accuracy does go down exponentially with the number of gates, but it merely goes down exponentially—exactly the way the theory of quantum fault tolerance presupposed 30 years ago.
As I explained in item 8 of my previous post, this behavior does not contradict my conjectures regarding correlated errors. (I agree that such a behavior, if confirmed, is overall encouraging.)
Scrutinizing the Google 2019 experiment and other experiments
Over the last five years, Gil Kalai has been driven in a really weird direction where he’s basically saying these experiments have to be wrong. He keeps writing to the Google people requesting more of their raw data—he CCs me on the emails—then does his own analyses, posts about it on the archive.
Since I regard this issue as important in broader scientific contexts let me highlight my response.
In my view, carefully checking experimental claims—especially major ones—is an important part of scientific work.
I also think that, as a general rule, raw data for such experiments should be publicly available.
(Scott was CC-ed to the correspondence because Scott initiated it; we would love to have a similar discussion with the relevant Google team about the 2024 distance-3,-5,-7 surface code paper and if Scott can make the connection this would be helpful.)
He keeps saying their 2019 experiment must have been fallacious.
Our findings indicate that the experiment may indeed have been flawed.
As I wrote elsewhere “I believe more can be done to clarify and explain the findings of our papers.” So far, the concerns raised in our papers were directed mainly to the Google team itself (and to interested specialists), and non-specialists may have found them difficult to follow. My 2024 post provides a short introduction of our work.
But in the meantime, there’s been a dozen other experiments by other companies all getting the same conclusion. He’s fighting a losing battle at this point.
We examined the Google 2019 experiment carefully and looked less carefully at several other experiments. (I would personally be interested to extend our statistical study to the Google 2024 surface code paper.) If people find our efforts valuable, they may go on to scrutinize additional experiments. We would be happy to share our experience and computer programs.
For comparison, there have also been many experiments claiming the observation of Majorana zero modes (MZM), yet it remains an open question whether they have actually been demonstrated. (There are reasons to think that MZM were not conclusively demonstrated and to doubt the methodology of some of the experimental efforts. )
Conclusion
The fact that someone of his capability tried so hard to prove quantum computing impossible and failed makes me more confident.
This is perfectly OK! My goal is to advance understanding—even if the conclusions eventually go against my own views.
If there is a fundamental roadblock, it has to be something totally new and shocking, something we haven’t foreseen and Gil hasn’t foreseen either—some change to the laws of physics that somehow wouldn’t have reared its head with thousands of gates but will do so at millions of gates.
Contrary to what Scott says, my conjectures and explicit predictions would already manifest themselves at the scales of hundreds of gates and of thousands of gates (perhaps even tens of gates), rather than only at the scale of millions.
__________
So what’s wrong with a little bit of hype?
There are various other interesting issues raised in Scott’s answer about my argument and in the entire interview. An interesting question raised by Yuval Boger in the interview was about hype in commercialization:
Yuval: It takes a lot of money to build a quantum computer and even more to develop one. This money comes from investors, and investors need to believe in a vision and a future. So what’s wrong with a little bit of hype to get the money you need to execute on the plan?
Yuval Boger graduated from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. He is now the chief commercial officer for QuEra Computing.




